The Eye-ler Perspective
Join Kyler and Tyler, as we discuss paradigm shifts, religion, work, family, total BS, and how every experience alters perspective. You can't see tomorrow through yesterday's eyes.
The Eye-ler Perspective
21 - Britton's Change in Perspective on Religion and Spirituality- Part 2
Britton shares with us how his perspective changed and his views on life and truth.
Trigger Warning for those who are Believing members of the LDS Church.
Yeah, because you know, I I mean there are things that like, you know ghost stories or whatever, but like all those like I'll dismiss those like any day of the week just because I like this one this was real like I I You know, I I grew up mormon, you know, and I I left the church, you know I I changed my views when I didn't have the evidence and i'm telling you like I can't deny this one like it was it was a real object That's all So cool. Yeah,
Kyler Gilstrap:I think that's perfect segue. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us more
Britton Zeeman:about
Kyler Gilstrap:your perspective. Oh, yeah Yeah, talk about your segue.
Britton Zeeman:Yeah All right. Yeah, so like I said, I I grew up Mormon and It's Like, what, like, what, what specifically are you interested in, in the perspective change?
Kyler Gilstrap:Just, just what, what took you from point A to point B? Because you said something about how the evidence wasn't there for you. And that's understandable. Yeah. So how did you get to be where you are now?
Britton Zeeman:Well, I think, well, some, some of it was like you know, some things in the church didn't make much sense, but you know, I, I always put it off, right? Because as a child, you just assume that the adults know more. So that's what I just did. You know, I just put it off. Like, so it, I was trained to not question. But once I realized not questioning, wasn't like a proper mindset.
Kyler Gilstrap:Plus you have a very inquisitive mind. Yeah.
Britton Zeeman:It, it drove me insane to, to not question these things. Right. And there are other things like you know, like spiritualism, things that like, I'd hear other people say that I'm like, Oh, that makes sense. Like that resonates with me, you know? So I'd be like, Oh, that makes sense. But then like the church would like demonize it, you know, like, like anything that isn't directly associated with the church, it comes out of the church is somehow wrong. And so I was like, I don't know. It's something seems uncomfortable. Something seems I'm right. Yeah. And I heard somebody on YouTube that was a Catholic and he said, you know, I, I was Mormon for, you know, like 30 years or whatever he said. And somebody asked me, why don't they ever talk about God? And I was like, that is weird. Why don't they talk about God? And they're like, do this for me. Go to, go to church. And just for a month or, or for three months, six months, it doesn't matter how long you go for it, you'll never hear anyone mentioned the word God ever. And so I was like, okay, well, I'll take that challenge. Cause I feel like I'm very confident that, you know, in this, we talk about God, cause God is really important. I went there for like a year. Nobody ever. Said the word God not once. Are you talking about in lessons? Yeah, i'm talking about in lessons because I
Kyler Gilstrap:could stump you right now. Oh, yeah Only because of the sacrament prayers. Oh, yeah. Oh god the eternal father. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah
Britton Zeeman:Yeah, but just like like lessons in general from from the pulpit or in the classrooms Nobody ever mentioned the word god and I was like, oh my gosh, like this is he's right. They, they never mentioned it before. So I started looking into like Christianity. I started looking at other things. You know, and I, I went down like more like the spiritual, like path where like, well, everything's got, you know, energy, everything has some form of spirit in it, so we should treat everything with respect, right?
Kyler Gilstrap:Like a spirit quest.
Britton Zeeman:Yeah. Yeah. And So that's kind of where I went for a while. And then after a while, you know, I was, you know, hearing, you know, people, you know, give debates and I was listening to Mormon apologists. And I was like, I didn't know a lot of this stuff. So I started researching like Mormon history and I realized that some of it. And how old
Kyler Gilstrap:were you when this was going down?
Britton Zeeman:This was from, how do I say it? I don't know. Maybe like, I mean, it was like years and years. So maybe like. 15 to like 20. Okay. Right. Yeah.
Tyler Zeeman:Cause when I got home from Chile in 2013, you were still at that point trying to go on a mission.
Britton Zeeman:Yeah. Yeah. Well, cause at that point, like I really didn't even believe in it anyways. I was just thinking like it was a good opportunity. You know, they, they pay for it anyways. And so I probably really shouldn't have been trying to go on a mission. Well, I remember you saying, I
Tyler Zeeman:finally figured out a way that I can. Teach about the church and Joseph Smith and feel okay about it. And I was like, I don't know what that means, but cool dude. Yeah,
Britton Zeeman:yeah. And yeah, but yeah, but really, I, I didn't think the church was real at that time. Like I was just, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Anyway, so yeah, I started listening to, to people, you know, like philosophers and stuff. And at some point I, you know, my mind I went, okay, well like, what about like the atheistic mindset? Like, you know. Because I realized that I was looking at all of these different religions and studying them because I felt like I was I was kind of being forced to by you know Mormon members of the church like I have to just study these things because they're like Okay, well you can't discount us because you haven't studied this, you know, or this one or this one You haven't studied all of these, you know, and so that's what I did. I studied a whole bunch of different religions and I realized that All religions are wrong in the same way and that they claim to know something that is impossible to know, you know so I felt that I was justified and being not having to Study every single religion because I felt that If God was a loving and caring God, because it came down to like, do you believe in a good God or do you believe in an evil God? And I was like, well, if I believe in an evil God, why would I worship it? Yeah. Right. It doesn't make sense. Yeah. How would that be fair? Yeah. So I was like, And if there's a good God, then he would want me to use my brain, you know, and think for myself and be like, look, this is what I was thinking. And I went down this path and this is why I thought these things. And he'd be like, well, yeah, that's a good thing. You know, you tried, you tried and became a better person. Yeah,
Kyler Gilstrap:absolutely.
Britton Zeeman:So there was a moment where I was like To say, I don't know. And to not believe in something is okay. Like, yeah, like just the moment of like realizing that you don't have to believe in something was a huge, and I was like,
Kyler Gilstrap:huge relief. I'm sure. Yeah. It was like a huge relief. Yeah. Shoulder. And you're like, Oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay. It's a huge, I get to choose. That's weird.
Britton Zeeman:Yeah. Yeah. There's a huge weight lifted off my shoulders. And I was like, Because, because at first it was kind of scary because I was like taking, because what you're kind of doing is denying the Holy Spirit, you know, even though you're just doing a thought, thought experiment. So there's a huge fear, like mental block of trying to think of what the world would be like without the idea of God. And so, but I had to do it for like a brief moment. And what's funny is that I did this on the toilet. That was your brief moment. Yeah. I had this moment. I was like, Oh my gosh.
Kyler Gilstrap:That's where they have the best moments of clarity. Yeah. In the shower and on the toilet.
Britton Zeeman:Yeah. And yeah, it cleared out my bowels and my mind at the same time. And I was like, Yeah, and then now you could think clearer. Yeah, I thought that wave
Kyler Gilstrap:that weight was lifted Yeah a little bit
Britton Zeeman:later. I thought you know the same thing. I was like, okay Well, let's try this again you know, I kind of thought like and then I realized it's like you know what this is nonsense what's really weird is that there is This feeling where you have to feel like you need to have permission for things Right in the lds religion like you feel like you have to have permission And i'm telling you right now guys if you're having questions Like It is okay to question and think for yourself and try it. Like you can step out of bounds. Like your God is a good God. He's not going to be upset with you. He wants you to think for yourself and I'm giving you permission and I'm telling you that you will be okay. And I don't care whether you choose to stay in the religion or leave it. I'm just giving you permission to step out of bounds that you will be okay. You know, you otherwise might not and try to change your perspective.
Kyler Gilstrap:Yeah. To have, to have an open mind and open heart. Yeah. Because there's, I feel like there's a lot of times that, like you said, you're, you're told what you can and can't study and you're told what you're supposed to believe in, what you're not supposed to believe in. And ultimately God, God's, whatever you want to believe in, wants you to make that decision for yourself because how else can you become better? And it's just something that's really cool to. To hear that perspective change that shift where you're giving yourself that permission and the grace
Britton Zeeman:Yeah
Kyler Gilstrap:to be able to realize that there might be other stuff going on. It
Britton Zeeman:was weird It took somebody telling that to me and I didn't want to admit to myself that it gave me relief because I was like no That's i'm independent But I wasn't Yeah, I wasn't free like and I didn't realize how much weight was put on my shoulders and you know being Mormon, like you're constantly looking over your shoulder and you don't realize that that kind of pain is there Until after you leave and you're like, oh I have this is okay. Like i'm, okay Like
Kyler Gilstrap:normal people do this. Yeah Yeah, you're like this is totally normal. This is this
Britton Zeeman:is everyday occurrence for people but for me it was an absolute miracle You
Kyler Gilstrap:Yeah.
Britton Zeeman:Yeah. So
Kyler Gilstrap:I love that. I love that. It's such a refreshing perspective. Yeah. And just that, that moment where your heels turn and you're like, Oh, I can do this for myself. Yeah.
Britton Zeeman:And, and all, all the like spiritual stuff, like I still really love like spiritual stuff. Like, yeah. Like one of my favorite books is the called the prophet from, and by Khalil Gibran. It's a beautiful book and it's basically like he basically wrote a book about like a philosopher teaching people and people asking questions and he answers the questions. So it's just like a simple book, but it's, it's really beautifully written and I love it. But I do try to look at things with more clarity of mind now. Like So I, I no longer believe things like I try my best not to believe things. I feel like if you're like belief by definition is incorrect. So if you're believing something, you're just wrong. I don't care if the belief happens to be true. You're wrong because you're, you're, you're believing for no reason.
Kyler Gilstrap:You're not putting it into solid facts is what you're saying.
Britton Zeeman:Yeah. So if, so there, there's different things like, like, I can say that I think Yuki loves me, you know and, But there's evidence for it. Like I have a reasonable expect, you know, a reasonable expectation to believe that my wife Yuki loves me. So there's difference between, you know, having an expectation and believing something,
Kyler Gilstrap:you have measurable examples to prove it, to back it up.
Britton Zeeman:Yes. So, and I don't know that doesn't work for everything, you know, maybe it doesn't work for everybody. Maybe it's hard to do. But I'm not, I'm not looking at everything day to day being like, okay, what is my measured expectation for this thing? Right. You know, like, I don't like, I'm not like, well, is it an 80 percent chance or a 90 percent chance that this door opens, you know, I just opened the door and it's, it's really weird that, you know, like I get these questions a lot where people like, well, like, how do you go to through life like that? Well, I'm not thinking about it. You should do it, you know, you train your brain to work in a way that that function because once you lose your religion guys It's like you become a baby again, like you have no foundation like there is no foundation whatsoever and not you So you have to kind of Relearn how to think so I went through like the basics of logic and logical fallacies and things like that and that helped me a lot but I don't want to go through life like a robot, you know, right? And so you don't
Kyler Gilstrap:want to be a sheep you want to be the one making decisions. Yeah, basically Yeah, you want to be the master of your life?
Tyler Zeeman:I I just gotta say i've never heard anybody explain it and talk about it like this But it's so clear and it makes so much sense. Yeah, and I love hearing you go talk through this.
Kyler Gilstrap:Yeah Well, I think the biggest thing is that it shows into perspective how much thought goes into it. It's not a lot of people here. People leave it, leave any church and they think it was just like split second decision. So easy for them and they never looked back. When in actuality it is a long arduous process. Yeah, it was a lot of study and a lot and I noticed a lot of people who have Have a lot of really pure intent to want to know the truth for themselves Yeah, and in the end they get to the point where they're like,
Britton Zeeman:they just get angry because they realize that they've been lied to Yeah, like their entire life They've been told to believe and trust in these people wholeheartedly And the thing that makes people the most angry is Is the absolute betrayal because everybody In leadership positions have had the experience to hear these things and they know, they know better and it's really hard to, to believe that and to be like, well, all these other people believe maybe I'm just out, out, you know, maybe I'm the one that's off and I must be the one continually go back over, you know, back and forth, back and forth. And so, I mean, I promise you, the people who have left. Yeah, it's like, they have, so, there's something called gosh, I'm terrible, I'm so bad guys, I'm sorry, my, my
Tyler Zeeman:mind, Do you get it in Japanese?
Britton Zeeman:No, it's Basically, basically what it is is that like when reality doesn't match your like true core beliefs of how things are supposed to be a cognitive dissonance, yeah, cognitive dissonance. There you go. Yeah. And people might not know this, but this is actually a torture technique. This is a psychological torture. So people who are leaving or changing their beliefs often go through this psychological torture. And so people don't, and on top of it, they have everybody that they love so dearly telling them that they're wrong and incorrect, that they're sinful, that they're deserving of hell that you're letting them down. Yeah. That maybe you should be kicked out of the family if you're not careful with what you say.
Tyler Zeeman:You're disappointing us.
Britton Zeeman:Yes. You're a disappointment and it's really hard.
Kyler Gilstrap:That's really heavy. Yeah. And it's hard decisions to make for anybody. I liked, I liked what you said about how, when you finally made that, that decision for separation, you were a baby again, talk, talk about how you built yourself back up. You talked a little bit about logic and understanding that, but what, what, what things did you put into your, into your future that helped you get to where you are now?
Britton Zeeman:Put into my future as in like like, like maybe like a defense mechanism or something or
Kyler Gilstrap:whether defense or like, what, what are the things that would you say is your anchor? Yeah. You're building, you're building points now.
Britton Zeeman:So I, I try my best not to believe things without no reason, basically. That's basically bottom line. Don't, Don't believe belief is incorrect. That's the number one core thing. Like don't believe anything because belief is incorrect. So you see, so you want knowledge.
Kyler Gilstrap:Yes. That's, well, that's one of the things that I thought was really interesting because a lot of people say that you need faith and they like hammer into your brain that you need faith. Yeah. But the problem is with faith is it's blind. Obedience. Once you know, you don't need faith anymore because then you have knowledge. Yeah. So then it was like this oxymoron where it's like, well, you just need more faith. And you're like, yeah, but if I know.
Tyler Zeeman:And then it gets confusing. People are like, I know this is true. You're like, Oh shit, he knows he has the evidence. Well, yeah, here's
Britton Zeeman:something else that might hit people a little bit wrong. But faith is not a virtue. It's not. So it just, you know, and I, I don't blame people for being part of the, you know Mormon religion. There are many other religions like to, to be fair, I want to, you know, to be fair to, to Mormons. I am actually really grateful that I grew up in an LDS religion opposed to some other religions that are a little bit more heavy handed. Yeah. Right. So I also had really great, you know, like scouting experiences and really great, you know teachers in, in, in The LDS religion that were really good, you know, father figures and examples. So don't think that like, I am disliking or hating on Mormonism. I'm not, it's just the religion that I happen to be grown up in.
Kyler Gilstrap:I think the most important aspect of this part of our segment and conversation is the fact that, you know, your perspective changing, you changed, but you had a beautiful journey.
Britton Zeeman:I had a horrible journey, really awful. So when I was into like, like, you know, the spiritualism and like meditation. So I have to say this. So meditation helped me in an unbelievable way. You know, like it was just, you know, I had like anger issues and like once I realized that I could like feel the emotion, I wasn't a part of the emotion, like, like something just clicked in my brain and I was like separate. You know, and I was watching my thoughts, I was watching my emotions and then I found out how to control my emotions because I was, I was, I was connecting both meditation and body language. So if you, you know, sit upright, if you hold your shoulders up, if you look up, you feel more confident, you know, so I was, I was always had
Kyler Gilstrap:a really good posture too.
Britton Zeeman:Oh yeah. So I was, well,
Kyler Gilstrap:Way better than mine.
Britton Zeeman:Meanwhile, I'm like, damn, my back hurts. No, I can hear you creaking in that chair over there. So, and I don't do that intentionally or whatever. Like maybe I was more into that in your back. I, so basically I learned how to control my emotions and I tried to feel joy every single day. Right. And that's what I was doing every single day. I felt like joy. Cause to me it was an experiment. I was like, how joyful can I live? Right. And it was, and I already knew, you know, like too much of one thing is a bad thing. You know, I already knew this, but like, I'm already at a point like, Like, what do I do now? You know, like, like I'm alone, you know, I'm thinking for myself, I'm, I'm experimenting with the world, you know, I, I'm, I'm a baby. Yeah. I'm just, I'm learning. So and I'm feeling this joy every day and it, I just, I get bored. I get really, really tired and I get pooped out of feeling joy. So I was like, you know what I, you know, all, all these other people are kind of just reacting to their emotions and I have to be responsible for mine. you know, not that I was like, Oh, that's not fair or anything. But I was like, I'm kind of tired of controlling my emotions. So I stopped the like the meditation and stuff. And I was like, I'm just going to try to be a normal person. Right.
Kyler Gilstrap:And I guess, I guess kind of what I meant when I was asked that question was like, you talked about how you had great leaders and you were raised well in the church. And then there was that moment where you had your eyes opened, if we could say it that way. And you had the cognitive dissonance. And now You feel like you're at peace now, right?
Britton Zeeman:Yeah, yeah. So I mean like the
Kyler Gilstrap:transition from like you said, you made the comment, you said, you know, I don't, I don't want to bag on anyone, but it was just the way you're raised and it was a good way to be raised. I'm just saying as far as spirituality goes through your lifetime. Yeah, it was mostly
Britton Zeeman:yeah, so yeah, pleasant for the time being. Yeah. So maybe like, so a lot of people, when they leave a religion, they end up being really angry and upset for a while. I I'm past that, you know, but yeah, but most people aren't. Yeah. So I'm content with life right now. I'm okay. I, I do get upset sometimes like if I end up going into the wrong feed on like, so that's why I try to avoid social media too much, you know, or being on there too much. It's because I, I just, I always get thrown into the negativity of like the religions and their, their beliefs. And I'm like, well, I, so I just, I try to avoid it because it makes me upset sometimes.
Kyler Gilstrap:Hmm. I understand that.
Tyler Zeeman:I love that your explanation of meditation, right? Because a lot of people. We'll see somebody who leaves a religion and they give up prayer and they have like such this connection with prayer and how it's helpful. But prayer is meditation. And so I, I love your explanation of, of meditation and how it helped you. And Kyler's recently been talking about meditation, how it's helped him. And so I love the both of you who have gone through a similar process of falling on a very, I mean, the same way of centering yourselves and not calling it anything specific. But. You recognize that it is a value.
Kyler Gilstrap:I think, I think the biggest thing to, to recognize as well is, is the fact that everyone understands things differently. You know, everyone looks at things differently and their perspective is so unique to just them that when it comes to spirituality or religion or, you know, whatever it may be, politics. they're going to have their own personal perspective that's unique to them. That's not going to fit some giant religious sect.
Britton Zeeman:Yeah. So what I learned also around, you know, 18 or 19 years old was that by the time you're 18 to 20 years old it's like 18 to 20 or maybe like 18 to 22 or something like that. That, you know, Your beliefs, like for the vast majority of people, your beliefs are set for life and will never change ever. So when I, when I learned that I was like very stubborn on myself that I will, that will not be me, that I will do everything in my power that to be someone that is open minded enough that if new, you know, you know, new information comes along that I'm open to, You know hearing it and accepting it, you know That's my favorite thing to hear because that's
Kyler Gilstrap:the one thing that drives me nuts more than anything When someone goes nah, I have enough. I don't need to know anymore and you're like, i'm sorry What
Tyler Zeeman:yeah things
Kyler Gilstrap:change all the time. How dare you cut off information? Yeah Yeah, exactly. It's
Tyler Zeeman:like what we talked in our last podcast kyler Is parenting all these things that happen in the world like have an open mind and be willing to change for the better The world's changing you need to change with it Even though people say you don't change with the world don't live in the world Don't be out of the world You gotta change with it sometimes. There's things that are for the better.